tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post5459632079338653003..comments2023-05-20T12:08:52.031+02:00Comments on In The Games Of Madness: Thoughts on Heavy RainFrictional Gameshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00278352641328669040noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-65577549646191250822011-11-27T10:53:38.219+01:002011-11-27T10:53:38.219+01:00@Cosinus:
Wow, the first link is sooo interesting ...@Cosinus:<br />Wow, the first link is sooo interesting - mostly because of the fact how it was done: when it does "its thing" (being careful not to spoil it for anyone here), it makes you feel out-of-control, which makes it far more effective than if it was just a regular jump scare.<br /><br />Other that that, it's a bit funny: "She [...] looked as if all her joints in her body had been twisted. Worse, her hair was a mess, and sticking out to everywhere."<br /><br />How can <i>that</i> possibly be worse?<br />XDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-14200549060965732052011-11-26T02:05:06.552+01:002011-11-26T02:05:06.552+01:00Check out this 48 hour Ludum Dare Challenge game:
...Check out this 48 hour Ludum Dare Challenge game:<br /><a href="http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-20/?uid=2982" rel="nofollow">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-20/?uid=2982</a><br /><br />Pure awesomeness, beautiful art style, beautifully dark, explores some surprisingly heavy themes, and it doesn't have a happy ending. Kind of a horror game as it turns out. XD<br /><br />But it sure doesn't look like one at the very beginning. Brilliant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-55824620312084947112011-11-21T22:22:50.237+01:002011-11-21T22:22:50.237+01:00Thomas, take a look at these, I think they could b...Thomas, take a look at these, I think they could be interesting to you as similar subjects on interactive storytelling.<br /><br />1. http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.nhn?titleId=350217&no=31&wee%A0%A0%A0%A0D<br /><br />2. http://www.interactivestory.net/Cosinushttp://steampowered.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-11563288090717584692011-11-03T21:30:45.640+01:002011-11-03T21:30:45.640+01:00@Peter yeah I figured the only explanation some ki...@Peter yeah I figured the only explanation some kind of psychic/ghost/reincarnation element, which would have been super-incongruous if they'd left it in, just a shame they didn't find another way to pull off implicating Ethan without leaving such a weird and blatant loose end.<br /><br />@Alex Camilleri *shrug* I did, I mean sure it wasn't at the forfront of my mind, but it was one of several nagging annoyances that mounted up for me and kind of spoiled my enjoyment a little. I certainly wasn't looking to nitpick the game, I have a real soft spot for QD, guess I just have that kind of brain.<br /><br />@Thomas I totally agree that it's the sense of participation that makes a game. When I think about it all most of my favourite things in other mediums are well put together, on the other hand the games that I love to lend to people are really flawed. Anachronox, Vampire: Bloodlines, Second Sight, Fahrenheit. Hell I used to lend out Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth just for the investigation and chase scene before Amnesia came along (and if there's ever a poster child for the mood killing power of trial and error it's DCoTE). A game can have all the flaws in the world, but if it also has those moments when you're utterly emotionally invested in the weird world you're exploring or a character's fate then it doesn't matter in the slightest. And HR totally pulls that off when it's at its best.<br /><br />One thing I did find with HR is that it was one of the cooler games to compare notes with friends on. I was in a shared house when it came out, and it was just kind of fun to watch each other play (makes you feel so much worse about beating your kid at swordfighting when someone else is watching). Things like the way I was apparently the only one whose instincts were screaming at them to get Madison out of the doctor's house, or comparing my housemate's trying to do the lizard trial with one hand whilst watching through splayed fingers vs my boyfriend's disbelieving laughter and deliberate choice of the worst possible implement (maybe I should be worried) was just kind of cool.Illessahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06336953020857234877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-25895134619197661762011-11-03T10:38:51.277+01:002011-11-03T10:38:51.277+01:00Good article, thanks!Good article, thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-11448082653590396462011-11-02T00:04:04.729+01:002011-11-02T00:04:04.729+01:00@Illesa:
My point is that i don't think you s...@Illesa:<br /><br />My point is that i don't think you said "How the fux was he supposed to pass into the venting?" after finishing the game. I really think it's something you can think of just if you really want to look for plot holes and discrepances. <br /><br />On my opinion, it doesn't matter if there are relevant and irrelevant plot holes as long as you were able to enjoy the ride.Alex Camillerihttp://www.alexcamilleri.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-53928481316077597762011-11-01T21:56:48.895+01:002011-11-01T21:56:48.895+01:00Illessa:
Glancing through that gamecritics text a ...Illessa:<br />Glancing through that gamecritics text a lil it is interesting how many of these I remember thinking about (like Shelby being the first to get the much of the important evidence) but then not thinking about anymore because I later became pretty engrossed in the game. I do not think the same would be true if Heavy Rain was a film or book.<br /><br />I like to think that this shows how irrelevant the plot is in a videogame, at least beyond general premise and themes. What really matters is the situations that you as a player take part in, not has a view but as an active participant, where strong sense of presence is felt.<br /><br />The same thing is true for Amnesia too. I know many people who did not like the story very much (even disliked it!), but still were able to enjoy the game very much. John at Rock Paper Shotgun is an excellent example of this.<br /><br />I know the "story is unimportant, gameplay is what matters" is pretty old. But still, Amnesia is a pretty narrative driven game. And Heavy Rain is VERY much a narrative driven game. Still what matter is the events that we imagine ourselves to be present in.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02945983378935089787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-66583714964607781842011-11-01T21:50:26.711+01:002011-11-01T21:50:26.711+01:00They cut it because it was a series of scenes wher...They cut it because it was a series of scenes where Ethan would transition into a dream-like state where water would completely flood where he was and would end in him finding the latest victim in the flood water (the water literally filling up the place he was in). He'd wake up with the origami figure after the scene because he was making the same figure in his sleep at the same time as the killer via a psychic link that was established because he lost consciousness after saving his son in the opening of the game when the killer was there.<br /><br />I can see why they cut it, this supernatural element and psychic link detract from the story.<br /><br />Of course, the point is that one plot hole (and I would call that a plot hole, on the other hand, who Shelby hired, or how he got the glass into the tunnel isn't much of a plot point, simply isn't explained) does not constitute the game "being full of holes".<br /><br />Honestly, I thought the fact that your wife didn't seem to like you much even though you saved her first-born was tougher to swallow than it not covering Ethan's unconscious ability to make origami figures.Peterhttp://peter.corrosivetruths.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-81507544602227020972011-11-01T20:51:16.578+01:002011-11-01T20:51:16.578+01:00@Alex Camilleri - the glass in the venting is a pe...@Alex Camilleri - the glass in the venting is a perfectly valid point though given it was one of the things that immediately resulted in a 'whut?' reaction when I realised where they were going with the killer (the other being that whilst some of Shelby's gameplay thoughts are explicable albeit in a kind of daft way, others make flat out no sense if he's the killer). The even-ness of the glass kind of means it must have been carefully distributed, which with the vent's layout would be next to impossible without getting yourself stuck, and given it was a squeeze for Ethan, the idea of Shelby getting in there is just ridiculous.<br /><br />As Michaela said, the big loose end is Ethan's blackouts, if it's cut gameplay then that's an awful decision, leaving that kind of information out of a mystery is just going to upset those who enjoy the genre; a book or film that pulled something like that would be torn apart for it.<br /><br />Anyway, I'll stop rambling, if you really want an extensive reaction to the writing in HR there's a decent-if-snarky 4-page playthrough at http://www.gamecritics.com/daniel-weissenberger/heavy-rain-is-in-many-ways-not-well-written-part-1<br /><br />Personally I still found it plenty enjoyable as long as I switched my brain off, and the lizard trial was one of the most visceral things I've experienced in a game. I just really want Quantic Dream to live up to the potential they showed in the first scene of Fahrenheit. I think the way it just throws you in and the amount of interactivity in the bathroom and diner are the ultimate example of the kind of direct control immersion Thomas talks about; I constantly recommend the game to people just for that scene.Illessahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06336953020857234877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-49246538237682653312011-11-01T20:36:13.379+01:002011-11-01T20:36:13.379+01:00Yeah the whole Ethan blacking out business. It mad...Yeah the whole Ethan blacking out business. It made absolutely no sense and the game didn't even try to explain it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-79341510908721429822011-11-01T19:06:01.885+01:002011-11-01T19:06:01.885+01:00There's only one real plot hole that comes to ...There's only one real plot hole that comes to mind. The whole Ethan black out origami thing (though the extras do point out that this was cut game play, which is a shame, it looked interesting).<br /><br />I can't think of any other plot holes...There might be unexplained elements but that's not really the same thing. Some stories thrive on leaving out details. Do you need to be hit over the head with every last minutia of how things happened? No.<br /><br />But not having Ethan as a genuine suspect (which he is because of the black outs) would have made the story less interesting in my opinion. So, that...it would have been nice if they'd come up with a better way for it to stay in. I don't think that makes it a bad game though.<br /><br />One of the things I found when playing the game is occasionally it felt like I was fighting with the controller. But part of me thinks that's my fault! ^^ Anyway, I liked it, and hope they make another game that focus's on big grown up things like story and characterisation rather than how realistic your gun is or how many people you can play online with.Michaelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17539147259055363569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-89800020002344031752011-11-01T18:30:03.596+01:002011-11-01T18:30:03.596+01:00@Anonymous: explain what are you referring to
I m...@Anonymous: explain what are you referring to<br /><br />I mean, I heard people saying "HR is ridicolous: how was Shelby able to put the pieces of glass inside the venting duct?"<br />I really find this critics ridicolous... which is actually well explained by 'haters gonna hate'.Alex Camillerihttp://www.alexcamilleri.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-4571712199072458832011-11-01T18:15:51.380+01:002011-11-01T18:15:51.380+01:00Dropping one of the major plot points of the game ...Dropping one of the major plot points of the game all of a sudden is just bad storytelling. I don't care if it's a "loose end" or a "plot hole", it's still bad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-54701115819723961222011-11-01T17:46:44.345+01:002011-11-01T17:46:44.345+01:00I always think it's bizarre how people talk ab...I always think it's bizarre how people talk about holes, assume there are holes, but never actually tell you what these plot holes are, and generally, when you push them, give you an unresolved plot-point, a loose end that doesn't get tied up. Certainly not a plot hole. Even then, arguably, the game does have one or two plot-holes, but it seems when people are talking about plot-holes, they mean loose ends.<br /><br />In exactly the same way that people say the story is bad, or the characters aren't developed and then utterly fail to explain how. The article linked to from the asterisk has both of these problems.<br /><br />The point is, yes, it's very easy to point out the bad in Heavy Rain - it seems very difficult to do so convincingly. For example, the people who incessantly complained about the think French accents in the game only to discover that the accents were mostly English thus demonstrating how good at telling accents apart they are. These criticisms don't appear to have much to do with Heavy Rain, and more to do with trying to justify a negative reaction to a game being just different enough to most games that it stands out. It's a trope, a bit like saying a game has tight controls, or comes together well.<br /><br />People seem afraid to just say that Heavy Rain was a good game without caveats that they would leave out of other game criticisms.Peterhttp://peter.corrosivetruths.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-16462353586140656572011-11-01T17:20:05.657+01:002011-11-01T17:20:05.657+01:00Also about the achievements, Cage showed his conce...Also about the achievements, Cage showed his concern about trophies implementation, and he made an interesting choice: HR is the only game (I think) that gives you all the earned trophies at the end of each chapter, and not in the very moment you obtain them. This contributes to mantain the immersion of the player during the gameplay sequence without making her notice she made a key decision.Alex Camillerihttp://www.alexcamilleri.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-24138968284154549982011-11-01T17:11:41.097+01:002011-11-01T17:11:41.097+01:00Very interesting take on Heavy Rain.
There's s...Very interesting take on Heavy Rain.<br />There's something I want to add regarding the Achievements and their place in a game like this, though.<br /><br />On the one hand, yes, they force players to either replay the game, trying to see different endings or results to certain scenes, or to finish events in a specific way, like the scene where Shelby tries to cook, takes care for the baby, etc.<br />This is a horrible idea, working against the idea of "play your own adventure" (which fails for several reasons you and others pointed out anyway).<br /><br />On the other hand, they allow to see how other players experienced the story quite quickly. Recently I compared achievements with a friend after talking about Heavy Rain. While I got "I'm a Killer...", my friend did not.<br />Several achievements show whether the player selected option A or B in a scene. These small bits of information help interpret the story others experienced - at least in my opinion.Michael Elbertnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-40501202749702799622011-11-01T16:41:07.693+01:002011-11-01T16:41:07.693+01:00@Thomas: you got a really really good point. When ...@Thomas: you got a really really good point. When you're playing with the swords, you can decide to let them win or to be the 'unbeatable father'. It brings to no consequences plot-wise but it really gives the player this sense of partecipation that is pretty unique.Alex Camillerihttp://www.alexcamilleri.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-59307677573808794952011-11-01T16:24:07.447+01:002011-11-01T16:24:07.447+01:00While I haven't played Heavy Rain, a point in ...While I haven't played Heavy Rain, a point in this post reminded me of Mass Effect. There are times during conversation trees, when the player is given a choice of what to say - the "promised" response, and the response that the protagonist gives, should the "promised" response be selected, are completely different.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-87955107920881895892011-11-01T16:22:53.460+01:002011-11-01T16:22:53.460+01:00Alex: What I found interesting about the sequence ...Alex: What I found interesting about the sequence playing with the kids is that you could choose to fail in a very meaningful game. It simply felt better to let your kid win. That is also something I have not seen in a videogame before.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02945983378935089787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-37016796445405867342011-11-01T16:16:21.820+01:002011-11-01T16:16:21.820+01:00Interesting reading as usual. I'm a big suppor...Interesting reading as usual. I'm a big supporter of Heavy Rain because it tries to go in an uncharted direction for videogames, as you pointed out. <br /><br />I would have also spent part of the article talking about one of the most important and interesting parts of the game on my opinion: the interaction with the kids at the beginning of the game. Even if it could seem to be a meaningless part for most of the videogamers, it really manages to enstablish a connection between the player and the main character, understanding his successful life and his love for the family followed by disgrace. Without that part, even the mall sequence would have lost a major part of its dramatic impact.<br /><br />AlexAlex Camillerihttp://www.alexcamilleri.comnoreply@blogger.com