tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post1279008208796243853..comments2023-05-20T12:08:52.031+02:00Comments on In The Games Of Madness: Thoughts on Bioshock InfiniteFrictional Gameshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00278352641328669040noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-90243509152002511232013-09-24T05:26:55.009+02:002013-09-24T05:26:55.009+02:00One of the coolest things about Infinite was the l...One of the coolest things about Infinite was the lack of true villains. You can point the blame in many directions but because of the multi-dimension element you can see that there are many possibilities when it comes to villains. This is the problem with tackling dimensions, just as it is in scientist tackling the theories today. There are so many possibilities that at some point (or dimension) everyone is going to be a root to a problem. I love how Infinite made so many people a root, rather than sticking to one bad guy. <br /><br />http://emailwire.com/release/125219-New-novel-Spidersilk-combines-technology-fringe-science.htmlchelseyamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14330453924417469368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-22281557137558347722013-09-14T06:04:11.546+02:002013-09-14T06:04:11.546+02:001)I think the combat was part of narrative. After ...1)I think the combat was part of narrative. After many of the battle Elizabeth constantly questions Booker. And through these conversation you learn about both ofthem. It also help strengthen and carry the theme of redemption. While I understand your opinion about the combat, I think the way I experinced the combat was actually as part of the story rather than just a gameplay mechanic. Like this is the first game where I felt guilty for killing foder and actually on some subconcious level didn't like myself/protaganist. By the end I felt like I understood why the only to end Comstack was to end Booker.<br /><br />2)"Having any sort of cognitive demanding activity has been shown to decrease our capability to feel emotions. Not having combat can heighten the sense of empathy and connection to the characters."-quote<br />this is a little too text book. Given the fact that we don't exactly know what makes a good game and since the actual experience of playing game is complicated I don't think you can just apply this fact as if apply when ever violence is present.Johnnyyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01605180349653815583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-70771727191390202972013-08-09T10:08:06.576+02:002013-08-09T10:08:06.576+02:00I AGREE 100% with everything that the thread start...I AGREE 100% with everything that the thread starter said.<br /><br />I hate Irrational for this game! period.<br /><br />This game could have been infinitely better! <br /><br />I finished it recently and i am just so disappointed with it.<br /><br />This game paves the road for what we can expect from irrational and 2k from here on forward.<br /><br />All game developer companies need to use System Shock 2 as a reference for almost every FPS game period!!! That is literally one of the best if not thee best game ever made! Games to me keep getting worse and worse as time goes by. Its a shame that the old FPS games are still to this day phenomenal compared to the shit we are getting now adaysjblanc03https://www.blogger.com/profile/04541174280812293578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-33626409455749958652013-06-24T07:52:22.896+02:002013-06-24T07:52:22.896+02:00amazingly intersting to hear your thoughts on game...amazingly intersting to hear your thoughts on games like this. would love to read a review about "The Last of us"!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-57996155517941732242013-05-31T02:28:48.478+02:002013-05-31T02:28:48.478+02:00Huh. I am not actually sure whether self-coherent...Huh. I am not actually sure whether self-coherent is an insult or a compliment? I mean, I would take it as a compliment, on the one hand, and yet saying it 'lacked the really interesting bits that infinite suggested at' seemed to imply that self-coherence is, in some way, a thing to be criticized.<br /><br />As far as the Gameplay goes, well, having not played the game (partially because of hearing arguments so far as to it not being worth the 60 dollars) I can't comment on that, but I do agree with a poster somewhat below that, even if it hurts some theoretical immersion-experience, there is something very satisfying about good combat.<br /><br />I suppose it comes down to everything having a place and a time. Part of the reason why I always felt iffy about Dead Space and games like that, even when I found myself enjoying them. Because the place and time for cool and destructive combat was not in a Survival Horror, since giving someone a gun capable of mowing through the monsters rather...limits the horror aspect.<br /><br />Just a few thoughts I had.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12666090584044662225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-57899435716707326092013-05-26T23:37:28.187+02:002013-05-26T23:37:28.187+02:00This was a very thoughtful article, Thomas, and I ...This was a very thoughtful article, Thomas, and I respect, but don't agree entirely with, your premise. I agree that BioShock Infinite could be a very interesting game without the combat. However, I don't think it would be a _better_ game without the violence; merely a different one. One may ascribe it to some inherent character flaw or mental condition, but I actually like violent games. I also like philosophical games. May I really only have one without the other, or is possible to have both? I enjoy games where I have to no way to defend myself against the hostile beings inhabiting the game world (like Amnesia). I occasionally enjoy puzzle games too, although I typically satisfy my desire to solve problems via my activities in "real life." I don't typically enjoy purely narrative games like Dear Esther, but I can at least see how they can be appealing to people. But sometimes I like to be empowered and set against hostile forces with only my wits and reflexes to garantee my survival. That's not a horror game or a Dear Esther game to be sure, but I do find such experiences to be fun, and that's just as important as telling a strong narrative. Conflict and anger is just as much a part of the human experience as fear is or exploration and awe. Of course, while conflict may be inescapable, in the modern world it's usually intellectual rather than physical. That said, there is something primal about physical conflict and imperilment. H.P. Lovecraft (with whom I am probably more obsessed than I have any right to be) may have correctly pointed out that the "oldest and strongest emotion in mankind is fear," but the second oldest and strongest emotion may be aggression. Even so, while I may enjoy the adrenaline rush of a fight for survival, I need for the violence to be meaningful. This is why I don't enjoy games like Gears of War or Call of Duty. (This is not to bash people who like those games, it's just that I personally don't find them to be philosophically stimulating enough.) But this is what I love about the BioShock games: things blow up and my mind is blown too. I'm not going to argue that the combat in BioShock Infinite couldn't have been better integrated into the story (personally I think the original game did a better job of this) and I agree that game experience is usually enhanced when this the case, but it was precisely the kind of game that I wanted to play. I know you feel frustrated by the potentially awesome first-person adventure game this game could have been, but i think that Ken Levine made exactly the kind of game he wanted to play: violence and all. Honestly, I also want the medium of gaming to give rise to many more varieties of games than exist today. But I also want violent games to be accepted upon their own terms rather than dismissed by the non-gaming public just because they are violent. This isn't what you argued, but the truth is that when someone is injured or killed they bleed, and I find it hilarious but also saddening that while some games go overboard even realisically depicting violence for the horrific and gory thing that it is derided as "ultraviolence" while unrealistic consequence-free cartoon violence is given a pass. I think that wonderful and meaingful narratives can written not despite violence but because of it, just as they can be without it. And while BioShock Infinite may have fallen short, it did enough right that it was not only very fun for but holds a special place in the heart for people like me.<br /><br />God, it's so hard to write in this interface; especially using a phone! I know you and I are probably never going to agree about this, but I felt the need to give my two cents. Just continue doing what you do best, creating fantastic and inspiring games! :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-44967246914549549252013-05-15T19:11:12.006+02:002013-05-15T19:11:12.006+02:00When we know more we will say so, promise! Right n...When we know more we will say so, promise! Right now there is nothing I can say about release.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02945983378935089787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-86068477286828687622013-05-15T17:57:37.654+02:002013-05-15T17:57:37.654+02:00Damn dude,
It's been 5 days since I made tha...Damn dude, <br /><br />It's been 5 days since I made that comment, and when I today, finally check back, you've given nothing but an oink and attempted to make a face that vaguely resembles that of a pig?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-19043247031856645922013-05-12T15:42:45.453+02:002013-05-12T15:42:45.453+02:00What's this with the competition argument? Tom...What's this with the competition argument? Tomas writes that it is worth pondering if it's the author/developer that is clever or the player. It certainly should be the author/developer if the work should have any prize.<br /><br />Infinite was to me the typical kind of story where you leave a lot of loose ends to "interpret" which leads to LOADS of discussion and analysis. Does that make it a great story with a lot of depth? <br /><br />It certainly is the kind of story that most easily generates this kind of plot analysis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-727311818112116422013-05-12T14:32:43.464+02:002013-05-12T14:32:43.464+02:00Very well said! I also found the person above with...Very well said! I also found the person above with a Enter-phobia to be reaching in his/her's explanation of the game's narrative.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-3986736733262392522013-05-12T02:52:14.808+02:002013-05-12T02:52:14.808+02:00Hm, I was sort of thinking about what your next ga...Hm, I was sort of thinking about what your next game was going to contain, and I was sort of hypothesizing/hoping that your next game would contain more detailed and more in-depth environments that is rewarded to the player through curiosity and the urge to explore like bioshock infinite did in the first 10-30 minutes of the game that feels constantly fresh. I strongly feel like that sort of design would work really well with your style, I really feel like it could add quite a lot to your games if you put the time into it. I feel like in a way you could really one up it, due to the nature of your design practices already. You really give the player space to feel things, and with that nature of that game play you could seriously take stuff far with that sort of environment design.<br /><br />Is it okay if I ask if you are working on that sort of thing? I remember reading an article that talked about how you were trying to take an "evolutionary leap" in your next game. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-48345355517197367742013-05-10T12:23:19.858+02:002013-05-10T12:23:19.858+02:00oink... =8)oink... =8)Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02945983378935089787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-38512455421297806042013-05-10T10:25:55.022+02:002013-05-10T10:25:55.022+02:00Thomas,
Isn't it about time that you guys pu...Thomas, <br /><br />Isn't it about time that you guys put up some more Machine stuff, like a clip? <br /><br />Come on dude. <br /><br />Q2 is about to be done and you're dead silent! :(Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-61355503747137840562013-05-08T19:02:53.722+02:002013-05-08T19:02:53.722+02:00I agree and disagree on the combat. I thought it w...I agree and disagree on the combat. I thought it was excessive, but I feel removing too much of it would leave a hollow shell (a very nice shell but hollowed out none the less). Dear Ether was a nice experience, but that's because there's not many other 'games' like it.<br /><br />In my opinion, Bioshock Infinite needs combat. But it needs to be done more sparingly. It needs to feel like you're combating with actual people who are trying to murder you. As it stands it feels like you're being attacked by mindless automatons.<br /><br />That's not to say mindless combat is always bad, I've recently enjoyed "FarCry 3 Blood Dragon". But combat should only be used as much as the game requires, and BioShock infinite could certainly have done with less "pew pew" and more NPC interaction.Azure Scorchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00059033963641414268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-86951092812938704432013-05-08T00:24:52.148+02:002013-05-08T00:24:52.148+02:00Excellent critique. I don't think the major s...Excellent critique. I don't think the major studios will change. There's too much money riding on AAA titles for anyone to risk a game that deviates from the familiar formulas. I think the only hope for different play experiences is for them to bubble up from the indie scene.Brian Uptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12764534056529685795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-92095798927279560862013-05-07T04:38:22.001+02:002013-05-07T04:38:22.001+02:00http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iZZg2qiBos
Here is...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iZZg2qiBos<br />Here is a movie with all the combat parts edited. NOW is like Dear Esther.Federico Checozzihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12891655653345827911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-7061214104115748542013-04-23T18:31:13.941+02:002013-04-23T18:31:13.941+02:00And to mention the thousands of discussions that B...And to mention the thousands of discussions that Bioshock Infinite has spawned with people trying to put clues together and make sense of the finer details. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-27763314536196073732013-04-23T18:29:13.973+02:002013-04-23T18:29:13.973+02:00@Thomas Why does it have be some sort of competiti...@Thomas Why does it have be some sort of competition about who is cleverer? Once an author has created an experience, different people will interpret it in different ways and all of them are right in their own way. BioShock: Infinite is clearly trying to make a statement about narrative in games. There have been some very interesting articles written about the meta commentry in Infinite. <br /><br />No offense, but the narrative of Infinite is much more complex and interesting than the narrative in Amnesia. The narrative in Amnesia was frankly, pretty cliched and not to mention the tacked on endings. There is really nothing much to interpret about Amnesia, not sure what is with people that apparently are. Just checkout the TV Tropes page for Infinite and you'll understand how much though has been put into the narrative. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-31489082928753039802013-04-23T03:32:18.846+02:002013-04-23T03:32:18.846+02:00Agree on most of it. I think what the game basical...Agree on most of it. I think what the game basically did was to try and change the way the 'large audience' thinks about shooters, and thankfully, I notice people are slowly getting over many fps games simply because the story and game play are all so generic. <br /><br />My main point is as you said, the exaggerated violence is unneeded and I think most people think this, but I think this is what Infinite is about, to change the way that the 'large audience' thinks about shooting and violence in games. On one side you have Elizabeth the 'nice' character, and on the other, Beckett, the bloodthirsty murderer, which is what most FPS characters are.<br /><br />Just think, what would the game be like if you played as Elizabeth?<br /><br />To me, Infinite just seemed 'unfinished'.<br />danpaz3dhttp://danpaz3d.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-44230920851916216002013-04-19T05:01:57.789+02:002013-04-19T05:01:57.789+02:00I have to agree unfortunately, I played it and hav...I have to agree unfortunately, I played it and have stopped. Lost interest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-71053254279774763042013-04-18T05:21:15.832+02:002013-04-18T05:21:15.832+02:00Oh, man, as much as I liked Bioshock: Infinite, I&...Oh, man, as much as I liked Bioshock: Infinite, I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels it's lacking on several fronts and felt compelled to write some words about it! (you can check the link in my name if you care!).<br /><br />I was especially disapointed by the game's linearity, the completely artificial NPCs, the reduction of the Shock series into a simple shootingfest and I felt that Elizabeth became not much more than a robot during gameplay too! Tychoxhttp://tychox.kinja.com/can-i-complain-about-bioshock-infinite-472923199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-15173695544242296202013-04-16T23:20:49.089+02:002013-04-16T23:20:49.089+02:00I would like to know your take on Dishonored, what...I would like to know your take on Dishonored, what you think about the cohesiveness of the game mythos ? Georges Benatti Jr (a.k.a. GB)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17473803710101764355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-86235296339512985562013-04-13T23:01:58.549+02:002013-04-13T23:01:58.549+02:00Thanks for sharing your view. And yeah, as said in...Thanks for sharing your view. And yeah, as said in an earlier comment, it is possible to get a lot of engagement from the game by viewing it in another way. The big question about your view though, is if its YOU or the AUTHOR that is being really clever ;) For your enjoyment it does not matter, but it is worth thinking about. When one does a "careful read" of something it is very easy to mold things into ways that were not the intention. I know this has happened from our own games, and we have had awesome interpretations of things that were never intentionally added but just comes from the ingenuity of the person doing the interpretation. This is still very cool, but also worth to ponder.<br /><br />Also want to note: Yes thank goodness that the game did not go into any more quantum stuff, I would have like it to exclude it and just to Star Wars. I hate when proper science is used as buzzword techno babble.<br /><br />Another very interesting point to consider is: The game is designed as an FPS from the start. In a way we should really be thankful for any themes beyond "shoot the baddies!". This seems to be pretty much the way you played the game. I have been thinking about this a bit, and would really like to write a longer essay on it. I think there is a sort heritage of just taking shooting for granted in games, and that it essentially has been made into a transparent activity. One does just dismiss the shooting and see it as something that help keep the engagement, almost like some kind of weird song and dance number.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02945983378935089787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-52984529005483725652013-04-13T22:49:20.794+02:002013-04-13T22:49:20.794+02:00I started writing something, but it felt like rant...I started writing something, but it felt like ranting. I would need to think harder and write a longish reply to give a good answer.<br /><br />Short summary: No, it felt a lot more self-coherent and lacked the really interesting bits that Infinite suggested at.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02945983378935089787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-45163377335209909702013-04-13T11:01:41.724+02:002013-04-13T11:01:41.724+02:00I would also like to point out that it seems to me...I would also like to point out that it seems to me you have flown through some complaints about characterization ("Instead we just end up with villains without much depth. The game simply points out that both sides can be evil, and that is it") which I think are poorly conceptualized. As a general rule, Infinite characterizes through subtly rather than trafficking in exposition. The game absolutely does not characterize as "evil," but instead unifies all of its present character arcs under a common theme of the lengths one will go to to find personal redemption or to exist in a world where they can accept their own self-image. Comstock, Fitzroy, Booker, Slade, The Luteces, even Songbird can be understood this way upon a careful read (I will concede Booker's character is probably one of the least engaging due to his constant piddling through trash and violence against others without proper motive). Anyway, to point, there's a lot going on in the subtext of the narrative that you're ignoring. Also, I would have tied a millstone around my playstation and tossed it into the pacific if Infinite had attempted to spend any amount of time expounding on quantum technologies or anything of that sort. In my opinion, those were rightfully omitted (we should all be taking a page from Rian Johnson's book when it comes to these issues in the genre fiction of emerging mediums).<br /><br />Also, let me add that your ideas for improving the cohesiveness of the game were great. I respect your work and will continue to be a fan of yours.Jordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02103277506883916375noreply@blogger.com