tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post4393041679031753869..comments2023-05-20T12:08:52.031+02:00Comments on In The Games Of Madness: Why Horror Games Suck!Frictional Gameshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00278352641328669040noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-76253418065158296622013-10-10T20:19:33.806+02:002013-10-10T20:19:33.806+02:00I can't agree, because I believe the player sh...I can't agree, because I believe the player should have the option to choose whether he wants to fight back or to rum. I grew up with Resident Evil and Silent Hill and the weapons which I found´in both games gave me no sign of courage at all. Over the time I played the games, I had to force myself to venture more and more into the game with the fear to run out of ammunition and defense. You see, weapons does not make a horror game bad, it is the game itself that makes it bad if you can't do anything to defend yourself. In real life, people would use any object to keep the danger of them, that is simply survival instinct; use your environment to escape, but I guess it is cooler to run away like a coward that to do something against the thread.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-21988400532829819922010-12-07T16:17:20.495+01:002010-12-07T16:17:20.495+01:00I agree completely and would add based on my feeli...I agree completely and would add based on my feelings of how horror games are sucking. Other than the truthfulness of Unseen and vague enemies that Need your imagination to truly make it a horrifying experience. Same can be said of not just people making their creatures VISIBLE completely to the naked eye, but in terms of graphical power, it's a problem. Creatures back in say, PS1 or PS2 days, last-last console generation, creatures were very low in polygons, their faces were warped and it was hard to distinguish sometimes what the monster was as well, so even if it was visible to the naked eye if you look at situations like in say for example: CLOCK TOWER or even System Shock as well can be added.<br /><br />Graphics that made the creature, seen or unseen, made it still hard for our minds to really 'Know' or identify what it is we were dealing with or seeing, so our mind even then could give us a scare by our imaginations, wondering "What happened to this person/thing to make it what they are, why do they want to kill me, can it die, will it die, what's it made of?" as well as the greatness of intentional and Unrealistic animations. If something is unexplainable and unrealistic in a Non-cheesy way, it is scary on the basis that it is not humanly possible, it is NOT explainable so your mind will adapt to the story and universe of the horror game and you will grasp that it is not to be compared to the real world which is not as terrifying as the game world.<br /><br />Flawed graphics and animations, gameplay/controls and even sounds can help boost a games' horror, I strongly believe that and know many old horror games were scary for that reason too other than as you even said, Silent Hills' clunky gun mechanics added to the fear because you know it wasn't dependable and left you with melee weapons, meaning you'd have to get close and personal or run away, running away being the wisest of choices if the creatures weren't weak as a cardboard cut-out.<br /><br />A game I would love to prescribe that to me? Truly set a great bar in Horror when I was younger and I have yet to play and beat, was a game from the Alone in the Dark series, which they as well haven't aged well with time. However, Alone in the Dark: The New Nightmare, TO ME, is one of the scariest games I've played(The voice acting sucks ass though, lol). The game was hard, had lots of darkness, atmosphere, horror, creatures that would keep coming back and VERY....Very small amounts of ammo, that created such a feeling of dread and horror because yes, you may find a good amount of weapons here and there, but who says you'd find the ammo for it?.... I was running out of ammo so much! To the point where I had tried killing everything so it'd be out of the way and I'd not run into it again, but they'd come back after an Event happened! Light sources were scarce as well and everything seemed to just not give me any advantages.<br /><br />I recommend that game and to be played properly in the dark, definitely. Hope people read my comment! I still have yet to finish Amnesia though, I was waiting for me and a friend to play it together for a great and fun experience of cooperatively playing it over Voice in the dark xP it's so fun and doesn't ruin the experience cause we're both scared and dare eachother to go into the next room and such at the same time or someone to take a leap of faith while the other hides like a coward xD<br /><br /> - Mounce - fuzzymoto2002@hotmail.com -Mouncenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-39457213112930598462010-10-01T21:18:05.902+02:002010-10-01T21:18:05.902+02:00Let's revive this post once again :)
I disagre...Let's revive this post once again :)<br />I disagree with some things mentioned in the unfun combat part. First, the limited resources approach - in all games I played that had it, it caused nothing but frustration. With each spent bullet/durability point, I was feeling more like "Goddamn... a few more and I'll have to reaload from a savegame long ago and only use melee weapons.". Also, without the looming shadow of limited resources I would blast an unfamiliar enemy with my strongest weapon, to prevent it from showing me what it can do. Ratioting on the other hand encourages getting close and personal; learning the attack patterns so you can despatch the enemy with your worst weapon later. This takes away from the atmosphere.<br /><br />Also, combat doesn't have to be fair to be good. If the fighting is brutal, the player will become afraid of the monsters themselves. This is why I fondly remember the first part of Undying (let's forget the part where you acquired enough spells to shine in the night, and the game became more like Alien versus Predator... with you as the alien). The Howlers were terrifying for me not because of the sound effects, not because of their appearance, and not because they used to appear out of nowhere: it's that they combat with the them felt on the edge at all times. Most of the time I felt I was in control, evading them and keeping them at arms length, but in one brutal jump that wasn't dodged they could take away half my life total. It created amazing tension. I don't know how many times I've been through a scenario like this: "Now, be calm, keep it steady... two headshots will do... Goddamn! Okey, now you just need to react to the dodge, keep cool, everything is gonna be all right... Fuck. Where the quickload button again?". I won't say this combat was "fun", but it was immensely satisfying when I managed to win.<br /><br />Of course, this hit a particular sweet spot for me - I was immersed enough I didn't mind the realoading (and I did that a lot), and the difficulty level fit like a glove. Aiming for that kind of balance with many players of different levels doesn't sound viable at all, but I wanted to bring this as an example that combat can enhance a horror game. It's also an example where fear of the known, repeated enemy can be as strong as fear of the unknown.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-59909701316647237412010-07-19T22:47:47.937+02:002010-07-19T22:47:47.937+02:00starsstarsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-48496621825049947832010-05-06T17:26:28.036+02:002010-05-06T17:26:28.036+02:00Oh, and the developers of Pathologic (Ice-pick stu...Oh, and the developers of Pathologic (Ice-pick studios) just recently released another game that might be more familiar because it's recent: The Void.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08770107290046010057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-992442884846008182010-05-06T17:24:50.884+02:002010-05-06T17:24:50.884+02:00I know this post is old, but I just had to comment...I know this post is old, but I just had to comment. There's an obscure Russian game called Pathologic that was translated into english around 2007. It's roughly the same genre as Penumbra, I'd say- it's a first person game, and you get weapons, but neither of these are important qualifiers of how it's played. In Pathologic you're a doctor trying to cure a extremely deadly plague in a small, isolated Russian city, in the early 1900's. The infected aren't zombies and they don't mutate into monsters that try to kill you. They just die, very very quickly. Your only enemies are plague rats, muggers, and catching the disease yourself. You're on a time limit as each day ticks down, and if you don't accomplish your goals in that day one of the main characters dies. It's a very interesting use of foreboding and atmosphere with very little actual physical danger to the PC, and I personally found it extremely effective.<br /><br />A taste of the great horrific moments the game has- your ingame map has a back to it you can check by zooming all the way out. Hitting the zoom out button again will flip it. Around day eight or so, this image changes without warning, or notice. Originally it was a side-view of the town, and then it becomes a side-view of the anatomy of a bull. You just accidentally find it like that at random while checking your map. It changes again twice before the end of the game to further link the connection between the single town and the internal ecosystem of an animal.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08770107290046010057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-17619706951986936412010-03-01T18:06:50.527+01:002010-03-01T18:06:50.527+01:00hihiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-54422185344203110802009-12-22T16:57:08.127+01:002009-12-22T16:57:08.127+01:00Theres only one thing that bothered me during the ...Theres only one thing that bothered me during the bit where you kill the girl is that after you made pancake of her the doors that she "busted down" (for me anyways, I took refuge in the rooms and she just destroyed the door ) were destroyed. Would be alot creepier if the doors would be restored to normal to just show how mad Philip has become. implying that instead of moving down the door she just opened them. Psychological warfare on the player.<br /><br />It is a minor thing I know but those things count.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-74502526050780042822009-12-07T14:46:33.991+01:002009-12-07T14:46:33.991+01:00I guess in that case you'll have to program mo...I guess in that case you'll have to program more of the "fun stuff" so that player can actually do it himself instead of watching :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-57322496474516159932009-12-07T13:06:43.270+01:002009-12-07T13:06:43.270+01:00I agree that cut-scenes work quite well for dialog...I agree that cut-scenes work quite well for dialogs. I also like when cut-scenes are added as a reward at the end of a level or similar, as in Warcraft 3. However, I do not like when cut-scenes does "fun" stuff for the player, that totally ruins the experience (as described in the post).<br /><br />As for the zombie-turns-to-girl scene: it was first suggested by Tom (our writer) and then tweaked quite (while keeping the essence) a bit to fit the game. Glad you liked it! :)Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02945983378935089787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-15520249810566577412009-12-07T12:14:05.932+01:002009-12-07T12:14:05.932+01:00sorry for double post.sorry for double post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-51708811723795002722009-12-07T12:12:47.823+01:002009-12-07T12:12:47.823+01:00There's also another reason for cutscenes. If ...There's also another reason for cutscenes. If the player can interact during the scene, he can fail it in some way, for example killing one of the characters, which raises almost infinite possibilities for resolution and almost infinite problems. That's why in Half-Life 2 all npcs during cutscenes are completely locked - you can't shoot them, you can't put anything in their way etc. They just move you if you're on their way - which is stupid and breaks immersion easily. On the other hand, HL1 solves this problem by either making characters non-interactive like at the start or making the scene completely optional and participants completely generic (scientist, soldier, monster etc). And the result is that HL1 does not really have that much of a dramatic plot while HL2 does.<br /><br />So you either have to make some hacks for appropriately dramatic scenes or make scenes with generic units like they do in strategy games.<br />Actually I liked that scene in Penumbra when you kill the monster in some way and then find out it was the woman that you wanted to get to. Very nice hack, thank you :) I always wanted to ask, where did inspiration for that scene come from? The moment was so Silent Hill-ish in nature.<br /><br />Yeah, I remember that camera in the alley - loved that moment. There are some problems with changing camera angles during gameplay (Resident Evil 1-3 for ex) however. First, it's disorienting for the player and second, sometimes the threat is off-camera making the encounter more annoying than scary or anything else.<br /><br />Admittedly, I haven't played Siren for very long, so you're probably right. I watched the video playthrough which left out most of the retries.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-54834889948855770892009-12-06T17:16:57.803+01:002009-12-06T17:16:57.803+01:00Anonymous:
I think that by trying to imitate cinem...Anonymous:<br />I think that by trying to imitate cinema, game designers are kicking interactivity, the core of game medium, in the teeth. Much of the horror in game comes from the players having control and knowing that what happens is up to them. Sure, cut-scenes can be used in games, but using it during a tense scenes is very wrong.<br /><br />Camera angles can still be used to create drama though. In the first silent hill there is an excellent example of this where the camera has very creepy angles when running in to an alley. So while the scene use cinematic tricks, the player is still in control the whole time.<br /><br />Have to agree that Siren is a very good horror game in terms of atmosphere. However, it uses a trial-and-error type of gameplay which I thinks really kills the immersion. When I first start playing a map in the game, it is all super-tense and immersive, but after the third, forth, etc "cheap" death, all immersion is gone. Still, Siren is extremely interesting in terms of horror design.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02945983378935089787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-29373811468291563722009-12-06T13:37:35.678+01:002009-12-06T13:37:35.678+01:00Nice article, though you seem to be wrong in the f...Nice article, though you seem to be wrong in the first part about control and cutscenes. The developers' motivation to insert cutscenes (not remove player control, that's just a side-effect) goes from the industry-wide desire for games to be "like in the movies", more cinematic-like. And this one stems from the perceived dramatic quality of scenes in top movies. When director is in control of the scene and not player, it's much easier to build a controlled dramatic scene with same output each time. The whole point lies within the camera - dramatic camera angles showing dramatic character faces, their dramatic encounters with forces of darkness etc. If the encounter is not fully controlled and consists of reused animation, sound etc and most of all player swings camera wildly with his mouse, most of the dramatic impact is lost. Same with horror - scary scenes are much easier to make having full control.<br /><br />Resident Evil 4, for example, tried to make a somewhat interactive cutscenes - you could push buttons in a silly minigame to change the outcome. <br /><br />I recommend playing or watching japanese horror. The japanese people imho seem to better understand what the horror is all about. For example, the Forbidden Siren series are great exactly because there aren't that many cutscenes, the characters are all intentionally common people, so they're slow and clumsy. The monsters are also mostly people, controlled by dark spirits and there are rarely more than 3-5 of them in any given level. They can't be destroyed completely, only disabled for some period of time. And there are only a few cheap scares in the whole game, it's mostly the doomed atmosphere that gets to you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-53164230855435206072009-12-04T20:35:36.973+01:002009-12-04T20:35:36.973+01:00The best horror game, or should I say, horror leve...The best horror game, or should I say, horror level in a game has to be the Shalebridge Cradle level in Thief : Deadly Shadows. It pretty much ticks most of Thomas' boxes above and the ones it doesn't has pretty good reasons for not doing so.<br /><br />The rest of this post will spoil the experience so don't read if you wish to experience it for yourself.<br /><br />First of all, it's a surprise horror level. You enter the old orphange blind to its true nature, you may have picked up a bit of lore along the way that hints at it but there is no lampshading. It must have been hard for the developers to hold so much back as hidden within the Cradle are many stories to be told and an entire sub-plot of the main arc to be uncovered. It also makes the next decision the developers made to be even braver than that, but with an astounding impact on the player's psyche.<br /><br />In the first half of the level, you encounter no hostile NPCs. Imagine it, you've entered this decrepit ruin blind, there have been hints of a malevolence within. You don't know what is present here, so you're creeping around in the dark as the game has taught you to do, each corner and room containing a potential unknown threat. It's never realized and as such the tension grows and grows, further amplified by the soundmeister Eric Brosius' under-played yet dischordant soundtrack. Finally, after clearing the lower floors you'll make your way to the attic stairs and just before you reach the door at the top, after all that creeping and near-silence. You are greeted by what in contrast seems like the loudest, earth-thundering banging. And I tell you, what I did right then was turn on my heels and ran back down those stairs. That was the biggest real scare I've ever had from a game, it took me a fair while to muster courage to enter that room and the genius of the level design, making it the only place in the first half to have anything of interest let me know I had to go there. A huge part of me really didn't want to open that door.<br /><br />From there on the level slips back into the usual sneaking around NPCs stuff but there is a twist to that. The real genius for me though was that first section. The only danger in it was what I perceived and it's when a horror game manages to do that, that horror games are at their best.<br /><br />For a full autopsy of the level you should read Kieron Gillens PCGUK piece on it http://gillen.cream.org/thecradle.pdfUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00339221281326365598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-72607063230860224392009-12-02T17:34:33.219+01:002009-12-02T17:34:33.219+01:00You should try vampire the masquerade bloodlines.
...You should try vampire the masquerade bloodlines.<br />A very good game and generally not a horror game but the infamous haunted hotel level is one of the scariest things I've ever played. It has a largely unseen enemy,you sometimes catch fleeting glimpses of him- I missed most of these, some of them are in very obscure places which most players wouldn't find- but it does scare the crap out of you. There are no actual enemies in the level but nonetheless the constant spooky noises and lights popping out just as you approach them and occasional sightings of ghostly things keep you on the edge of your seat prepared for combat and the result...very scary.Himhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13671338637788043324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-2811533539809893142009-12-02T15:47:37.264+01:002009-12-02T15:47:37.264+01:00I am surprised STALKER: SoC wasn't mentioned. ...I am surprised STALKER: SoC wasn't mentioned. <br /><br />Very effective horror, never a loss of control.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-60180780877752195482009-12-02T09:54:57.381+01:002009-12-02T09:54:57.381+01:00therealnoz:
What I mean was that it is better to p...therealnoz:<br />What I mean was that it is better to put the player in an unwinnable state (where death is unavoidable) if he/she does something stupid rather than using a cut-scene. I agree that every situation where the player feels they are out of control, takes a away some of the immersion.<br /><br />æclipse µattaru:<br />I have only played the Condemned demo and since it seemed to have a large focus on bashing people I was not interested in playing more (did not find the combat frightening either). I have heard other good things about it later on, like a part where u have to follow a track of blood to find a killer and so on. So am a little more interested in playing now :)<br /><br />On new Silent Hill:<br />I think it will be very interesting to see how the game turns out. It seems that combat is been exchanged for tons of chase sequences which I am very unsure will work, written a post explaining why:<br />http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2009/07/history-of-violence-part-3.html<br /><br />Danielle:<br />Talk about music ruining the mood :) That is exactly in the direction I am talking about though. It is really interesting how ones immediately starts to imagining what kinda creature the eyes belong to.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02945983378935089787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-71930165036789846012009-12-02T07:03:52.388+01:002009-12-02T07:03:52.388+01:00To this day the scariest game for me was Abuse.To this day the scariest game for me was Abuse.John Neskyhttp://www.johnnesky.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-3019478402850082052009-12-02T03:51:34.084+01:002009-12-02T03:51:34.084+01:00Your talk about an "unseen enemy" remind...Your talk about an "unseen enemy" reminded me of the pair of eyes you encounter in "Who Turned Out the Lights" secret level of Earthworm Jim.<br />( See it on YouTube at http://tinyurl.com/darkroomewj ; shows up around 1:48 )<br /><br />It's used for comic effect in that game, but when you first see it, it REALLY startles you.Daniellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10977409740410405624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-52688923348591594292009-12-02T02:01:07.470+01:002009-12-02T02:01:07.470+01:00The new Silent Hill on the Wii removes fighting en...The new Silent Hill on the Wii removes fighting entirely and the game changes depending on what actions you take. I think it's called Shattered Memories. It looks pretty good. I agree with you on pretty much every front.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-25483564984328471962009-12-02T00:16:24.571+01:002009-12-02T00:16:24.571+01:00I'm a big horror fan and played a lot of horro...I'm a big horror fan and played a lot of horror games. I'd have to agree with you - aside from a few gems (System Shock 2 and Silent Hill), most attempts at horror are terrible. <br /><br />I have to say the scariest game i've played is that indie Japanese game called Yume Nikki. The mix of fun exploring a strange ambient environment and the unique alienating atmosphere really draws you in. It goes from curious to strange to terrifying... but it isn't to everyone's taste. Also the "big iconic scare" (Uboa in this case) has been over-exposed, thus making it no longer as scary.<br /><br />To add something of my own to your list:<br />Originality and over-exposure<br />Some creature designs and techniques have been over-exposed and parodied too much in popular culture (be it movies or games) that they become no longer scary.<br /><br />Something truly terrifying is something people can't attach a label too. And yet at the same time it is something eerily familiar...<br /><br />This rules out spooky little girls with knifes, long haired japanese ghosts, masked serial killers and tentacled monstrousities. EVERYONE knows what to do when encountered with these.<br /><br />Regardless, please keep up your efforts to terrify people!<br />I hope you manage to conceive of something that makes many people loose sleep and think about for a long time after they experience it! :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-77734713576752477912009-12-01T23:41:30.520+01:002009-12-01T23:41:30.520+01:00I brought it up a while ago and now that Anonymous...I brought it up a while ago and now that Anonymous guy up there does it again: I find it pretty weird that you never mention <i>Comdemned: Criminal Origins</i> in these posts. <br /><br />Me, I think <i>Comdemned</i> (the first one) should be a mandatory reference for anyone close to horror games, especially people involved in making them. It's a true masterpiece on how to build a horror atmosphere based in a fantastic use of the soundscape, and it tackles several issues you bring up repeatedly in this blog in a most clever way. <br /><br />Off the top of my head, it might just be the one horror game that manages to make combat fun <i><b>and</b></i> scary at the same time, and oddly enough it doesn't do it by making resources scarce (which is a pretty lazy solution if you ask me) but by making it visceral and dangerous. <br /><br />Also, you could say that in a pure strict sense it doesn't even use monsters (not as we are used to know them, anyway), which is quite a feat for a horror game too.Martín S. Camargohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15302454803867699244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-6134537956260714682009-12-01T23:37:11.844+01:002009-12-01T23:37:11.844+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Martín S. Camargohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15302454803867699244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9193968969153274146.post-80655611198655332482009-12-01T23:36:07.167+01:002009-12-01T23:36:07.167+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Martín S. Camargohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15302454803867699244noreply@blogger.com